The People of the State of Michigan - - - (Complainants)

VS

William Shimmel - - - (Defendant)

Emil Rollenhagen

†††††††††† Re Cross Examination

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Page 27† ( Continued )

 

 

 

RE CROSS EXAMINATION.

 

 

Q

What did you mean by making the statement to me that you made up your mind after you had talked with Brown about it up there at the other place where you were working the next day?

A

(No response)

 

 

Q

Now isnít it a fact, to get right down to brass tacks in this matter, isnít it a fact that you didnít pay any attention as you told me to who this man was, and you made up your mind as you testified a few minutes ago, after you had talked this matter over with Brown and after this thing had occurred and somebody

 

 

 

Page 28

Q

had whispered about Whispering Bill, said something about Whispering Bill, that you made up your mind that that was Bill Shimmel just as you testified a few minutes ago, isnít that true?

A

Why no.† When I saw him going along that day I thought it was him before anybody ever spoke to me about it.

 

 

Q

Then what did you mean by testifying as you did a few minutes ago that you made up your mind it was him after you had heard this talk, and that you did not give it any thought then when he went by?

A

(No response)

 

 

Q

Why do you hesitate witness?

A

(No response)

 

 

Q

Now sir, isnít that the fact?

 

MR. LILLIE: Read the question there.

 

MR. TURNER: Well he cannot answer

 

 

Q

Isnít it a fact that at the time you saw this man going by as you have already testified, isnít it a fact that you didnít pay any attention and you didnít have anything to call the matter to your attention and you didnít make up your mind who it was at all as you so testified?

 

MR. LILLIE: He didnít testify to that.

 

MR. TURNER: Yes, he did testify to that, I beg your pardon.

 

MR. LILLIE: I say no, (the testimony of the witness on this point was here read.)

 

 

Q

Now what did you testify to that for if it isnít true?

 

MR. LILLIE:† It is true

 

MR. TURNER:† Are you testifying for this witness?

 

 

 

Page 29

 

 

 

MR. LILLIE:† From his testimony it is perfectly true.† You were trying to get him to testify to something that he has not said at all.

 

 

Q

Now sir will you explain why you testified as you did to me a few minutes ago, that you made up your mind after Brown had talked to you and after the thing had occurred, the man had been killed down there, and after all that, that you made up your mind that it was Shimmel and that you had not made up your mind before, will you explain to me how you come to testify to that?

 

MR. LILLIE: He didnít say that, that he had not made it up before.

 

 

Q

Did you testify to that or didnít you?† I want to know whether you testified to that or not sir?

A

Why I understood you to say, whether, as you spoke about Brown speaking about it, about Shimmel, whether I had heard anything about the murder before or not.

 

 

Q

Whether you had heard anything about the murder before.† Now Then I will ask you the question again, you did not pay any attention to this man that went by on the track did you?

A

Why no I didnít pay no attention as he went down, but after he was gone by, it come to my mind, as I see him going along I thought it, that it was Shimmel.

 

 

Q

It came in your mind then?

A

Yes, sir, and as I come home that night and unhitched the team my father spoke to me and said, ďdid you know that man that went downĒ and I said, ďI donít know, as near as I can tell it looked to me like Bill Shimmel that I used to know years ago.Ē

 

 

 

Page 30

 

 

Q

Where was your father at the time this man went down the track?

A

He was in the barn doing the chores

 

 

Q

Did you ever see a man going down the track before?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And did your father inquire who the man was?

A

Why sometimes he did, sometimes he didnít

 

 

Q

Was there something peculiar about this fellow that made him inquire?

A

Why I donít know.

 

 

Q

Can you recollect one instance sir where your father ever inquired who went down the track before?

A

Why several different times, but I could not tell just at the present time.

 

 

Q

You cannot tell at the present time?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

Do you remember ever seeing anybody go down the track that you knew before?

A

Why sometimes.

 

 

Q

You do?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Did your father inquire about them?

A

Yes, sir, if there was anybody that he knew he spoke about them.

 

 

Q

Does your father know Bill?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

He knew him?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Did your father ask you if that was not Bill Shimmel?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

 

Page 31

 

 

Q

Why didnít you testify to that before?

A

I didnít understand it in that way.

 

 

Q

Now you understand it as my brother has put it to you - - well you have got a pretty good understanding, havenít you?

A

I think I have.

 

 

 

THE COURT: I presume I have a right to understand this thing myself.† I would ask you, is that the man that you saw go down the railroad that day?

A

I could not swear to that for sure now.† The man was far enough away that I could not see his face or anything, I Ďaint certain it really was him or not.

 

 

Q

(By Mr. Turner) Was he walking side ways towards you?

A

He was looking down on the track as he walked along.

 

 

Q

And his side was towards you was it?

A

Why no he was walking right along the same as anybody else walking along.

 

 

Q

I am trying to get what position he occupied there with reference to you?

A

I was going from him as he walked along, I had been to the Grand Trunk and had turned around and was going back across the field.

 

 

Q

Then he had his back towards you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

When you first saw him?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And you saw him all the time with his back towards you?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

What peculiarity is there about Bill here that you thought it was him?

 

 

 

Page 32

 

 

A

Why I used to know him years ago and as he walked along as near as I could tell it looked to me a good deal like Bill.

 

 

Q

And you thought it was him from the back of his head, from the back of his shape generally?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And the last time you saw him was six or seven years ago, and you cannot remember what kind of clothes he had on at that time?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

And he had an overcoat on at this time and yet you saw him in the back and you are willing to say that you think it was Bill Shimmel?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And that is all you are willing to say isnít it?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

 

MR. TURNER:† That is all.

 

MR. LILLIE:† That is all.

 

 

 

Emil Rollenhaghen

 

Subscribed & sworn to before me this first day of July 1907

 

 

 

Daniel C. Wachs

 

Justice of the Peace