The People of the State of Michigan - - - (Complainants)

VS

William Shimmel - - - (Defendant)

Thomas McCarthy

†††††††††† Cross Examination

Home††††††† Previous††††††† Next

 

Page 67

 

 

 

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. TURNER.

 

 

Q

How old are you?

A

41

 

 

Q

And how old is your brother?

A

I havenít any brother.

 

 

Q

Your cousin?

A

I guess he is about 31, I think he is 31.

 

 

Q

On the 23rd of April last where were you about six oíclock in the evening if you remember?

A

I was probably eating supper of doing the chores about that time.

 

 

Q

You live right in the village of Denison, do you?

A

No, sir, I live a half a mile west, better than half a mile.

 

 

Q

And do you go down home there to take all of your meals?

A

I live at home there.

 

 

Q

What is your business?

A

Farming.

 

 

Q

And about what time did you leave the house after supper?

A

To go to the store?

 

 

Q

Yes, sir.

A

Probably about half past seven.

 

 

Q

Half past seven.† Abut what time did you generally at that time of the year have your super?

A

About six oíclock.

 

 

Q

Did you have any work to do or anything after supper?

 

 

 

Page 68

 

 

A

I had the cows to milk and chores to tend to.

 

 

Q

How many cows?

A

I had eight cows?

 

 

Q

Milked them all yourself?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Did you have any other chores to do besides that?

A

Take care of my horses and hogs.

 

 

Q

How many horses did you have to take care of?

A

I had two.

 

 

Q

And you fed them, what else - - bed them down?

A

No, sir, not then, I generally bed my horses before I go to bed.

 

 

Q

Did you do that after supper?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And you fed the hogs?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

What does that work consist of, feeding the hogs, how many were there - - how many hogs were there?

A

I had seven.

 

 

Q

And did you carry out something to them?

A

I carry swill to fed to them.

 

 

Q

And then you walked down town did you or drove?

A

Walked.

 

 

Q

And you got there about half past seven?

A

I got there about a quarter to eight.

 

 

Q

Now what store was that?

A

It was called the Denison store.

 

 

Q

Yes, but who run it?

A

Martin Golden.

 

 

 

Page 69

 

 

Q

That was this Golden that was killed on that night?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And what did you do while you were there in the store?

A

I sat there and talked and smoked.

 

 

Q

Who was present beside yourself?

A

My cousin Ed McCarthy and Mike Malone, and Bristol Wilton and George Carr.

 

 

Q

And Mr. Golden?

A

And Mr. Golden.

 

 

Q

Were they all there when you went there?

A

No, sir. Mike Malone and Bristol Wilton came there afterwards.

 

 

Q

How long did you remain in the store?

A

I remained there about a half an hour or a little better.

 

 

Q

And you left there then about a quarter after eight?

A

It was twenty minutes after eight when I went out of the store.

 

 

Q

How did you happen to know it was twenty minutes after eight?

A

I looked at the clock.

 

 

Q

Where was the clock situated there?

A

It was situated right in the southeast corner of the store back of the post office.

 

 

Q

Was that clock run on fast or standard time?

A

Standard time.

 

 

Q

Where did you go from the store?

A

I started fro home, straight west.

 

 

Q

Was there anybody with you?

A

My cousin, Ed McCarthy.

 

 

Q

And did you stop anywhere?

A

We stopped at the milk stand in front of his fatherís house on

 

 

 

Page 70

 

 

A

the side of the road.

 

 

Q

That is your cousinís house?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

And this milk stand was a place where they placed the milk cans to be gathered up?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Were there any milk stands there at that time?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

What time are they generally placed there?

A

Well I donít know I never was along there in the morning when they put their cans up.

 

 

Q

Do you put any cans out yourself up at your place?

A

No, sir.

 

 

Q

How long did you stand there talking with him?

A

We stood there talking about twenty minutes I should think, twenty or twenty-five minutes.

 

 

Q

And about how far does he live from the store?

A

I should think he lives about twenty-five rods from the store.

 

 

Q

About how long did it take you - - did you walk slowly or fast along down to where he lives.

A

We walked slow.

 

 

Q

About long long do you think it took you from twenty minutes past eight to get down to where his folks live?

A

I donít think it took us over three minutes or four.

 

 

Q

Not over four or five minutes anyway?

A

No, it didnít take us five minutes I donít think.

 

 

Q

And you stood there and talked with him how long?

A

About twenty minutes I should think.

 

 

 

Page 71

 

 

Q

That would bring it up to about a quarter to nine?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Then what did you do?

A

We didnít do anything there then.

 

 

Q

Well now then you mean about a quarter to nine you heard these shots?

A

Well it was between twenty minutes and a quarter to nine when we heard the shots, I donít know exactly.

 

 

Q

And you heard something I understood you to say just before you heard the shot?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Something like somebody stepping on the end of a board sidewalk?

A

Yes, sir.

 

 

Q

Have you any explanation to make what that was now?

A

Why it seemed to me just as though he stepped on the end of a board and as he stepped off from it it dropped down onto the joice again, slipped down.

 

 

Q

That is who stepped down?

A

I donít know.

 

 

Q

How far was it away from you where the sound came from, how far did it appear to be?

A

Why it was about 25 rods from where we was, where we supposed the sound was.

 

 

Q

Was there any sidewalk twenty-five rods away from you, that is up towards the store we will say - - that was about where the sound came from, wasnít it?

A

I donít think it was twenty-five rods from the store to where we was.